Valakut Deck Discussion

4x Overgrown Battlement
2x Oracle of Mul Daya
4x Primeval Titan
3x Avenger of Zendikar
4x Khalni Heart Expedition
4x Explore
4x Harrow
4x Summoning Trap
3x Lightning Bolt
______________________________
12x Mountain
5x Forest
4x Valakut
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Evolving Wilds
______________________________
4x Slagstorm
3x Acidic Slime
3x Obstinate Baloth
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
3x Tumble Magnet
2x

Reasons for Tumble Magnet in the board, or is it a placeholder?

Does Wurmcoil Engine deserve a slot in the board?

Board Plan:
vs. Aggro
+4 Slagstorm, +3 Obstinate Baloth, -?

vs. Control
+2 Thrun, +3 Acidic Slime, -?

vs. Ramp
+3 Acidic Slime, -3 Lightning Bolt

Where does Tumble Magnet fit into this overall scheme?

Tumble Magnet

- Mirror when on the draw
- Vampires in games both on the play and the draw (Demon)
- Eldrazi Green in games both on the play and the draw (Titan, Eldrazi Guys)

And, if it becomes popular, the Shape Anew deck with Colossus on the play and the draw.

Aggro (Not Vampires) - +4 Slagstorm, +3 Baloth, -4 Summoning Trap, -2 Oracle of Mul Daya, -1 Khalni Heart Expedition

Aggro (Vampires) - +4 Slagstorm, +3 Baloth, +3 Tumble Magnet, -4 Summoning Trap, -2 Oracle of Mul Daya, -4 Harrow

Control (UW) - +3 Acidic Slime, - 3 Lightning Bolt

Control (Not UW) - +2 Thrun, +3 Acidic Slime, -2 Oracle of Mul Daya, -3 Khalni Heart Expedition

Ramp (Valakut, On Draw) - +3 Tumble Magnet, -3 Lightning Bolt

Ramp (Valakut, On Play) - No Changes - 18 is the magic number, Bolt is fine

Wouldn't Acidic Slime come in vs. the mirror?

I would think that setting your opponent back a couple of land as well as providing a method to kill opposing Primeval Titans would be acceptable over some number of Avenger of Zendikar and ramp spells (Harrow/KHE).

It is a race to the Primeval Titan, and Acidic Slime stops that. Tumble Magnet can also tap Overgrown Battlement.

With Harrow tapping the Battlement is inconsistent at best given the vast amount of 2-drop acceleration they can power out. As a general rule, Slime is great if powered out on turn 3, but once we pass that window he isn't as effective. A valakut player who lands a Titan and gets a chance to swing with him will (more times then not) get to remove the Slime before it ever gets the chance to block.

I have boarded it in at times in the mirror to mixed results. From my experience playing the deck, Oracle of Mul Daya breaks the mirror not Acidic Slime.

Kuldotha Red is going to require Ratchet Bomb to win the game, and a switch back to Pyroclasm perhaps instead of Slagstorm.

You'll laugh, but Tuk-Tuk is about to get a TON of play. It breaks the sideboard plan of most decks.

After seeing the results from SCG Indy and getting in 20 matches, (14-6) I've audibled to a new list.

2 Avenger of Zendikar
4 Lotus Cobra
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Overgrown Battlement
4 Primeval Titan

4 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Harrow
4 Explore
4 Green Sun's Zenith

5 Forest
11 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

It's Drew Levin's 2nd Place List (-2 Raging Ravine, +2 Terramorphic Expanse)

Tricks / Things With The New Version I Discovered Playing Last Night
1. Lotus Cobra on 2 + Terramorphic or Misty on 3 = Green Sun for 4 (Oracle)
2. Lotus Cobra + Harrow is just as good as Primeval Titan + Harrow
3. Green Sun for 3 hits Cobra if you played no Battlement or Cobra on turn 2
4. Green Sun for 3 hits Overgrown Battlement if you played a Battlement on turn 2
5. Green Sun is only used for 4 when situation 1 happens
6. The common sense logic of "KHE > Explore > Overgrown Battlement" no longer applies. With Cobra, the answer is forever now "It depends"
7. This version is far more consistent to the one I have had previous success with

This version just explodes all over your face.

You have to kill Lotus Cobra, or the deck just goes off.

I need 2x Green Sun's Zenith, and 1 Thrun to play the deck.

I also think -2 Slagstorm, +2 Ratchet Bomb for the aggro decks of the format.

It will be interesting if you can build an aggro deck with 3 toughness creatures, since they got a lot better with the rise of Kuldotha Red.

Interesting....

I'm just writing out the decks I'm most likely to play at D.C. assuming no writing gig, which I haven't heard back from yet.

Option 1 - Valakut

4x Primeval Titan, win condition
4x Lightning Bolt, need in order to beat UW control and Boros
4x Explore, best 2 drop ramp
3x Harrow, acts as win condition when not ramping. Need for Lightning Bolt overtakes 4th spot.
4x Khalni Heart Expedition, synergy with Harrow, acts as win condition

19 above, likely 27 land. 14 spots to play with

2x Avenger of Zendikar, alternate win condition
4x Lotus Cobra, too much synergy with rest of the deck
4x Green Sun's Zenith, desire to fetch Lotus Cobra on t3 too powerful. Drop in large targets causes Summoning Trap to be less effective
1x Joraga Treespeaker, can be a perfect turn 2 tutor target and outstanding t1 play if possible.
3x Cultivate, Overgrown Battlement misses out on final spot due to power of UW's ability to Jace, unsummon, and NOT tap out thanks to Sword.

Final Valakut List - Kevin Cavanagh
33 Spells
4x Primeval Titan
2x Avenger of Zendikar
4x Lotus Cobra
1x Joraga Treespeaker
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Explore
4x Khalni Heart Expedition
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Cultivate
3x Harrow
27 Land
4x Valakut
4x Misty Rainforest
11x Mountain
5x Forest
3x Terramorphic Expanse

What Cards Do I NOT Want To See In Each Matchup?

Against Mirror: 4x Lightning Bolt
Against UW Control: 4x Green Sun's Zenith,
Against Boros: 3x Cultivate, 4x Lotus Cobra, 1x Joraga Treespeaker
Against Vampires: 3x Cultivate, 4x Lotus Cobra, 1x Joraga Treespeaker, 2x Avenger of Zendikar
Against UB Control: 4x Green Sun's Zenith, 4x Lightning Bolt
Against KRed: 3x Cultivate, 4x Khalni Heart Expedition, 2x Avenger of Zendikar, 1x Joraga Treespeaker

In matches with -4 Lotus Cobra, I want 4x Overgrown Battlement back in. Also want Battlement in the mirror match as well.
Against Boros / Vampires I need a sweeper. With 4 Lightning Bolt in the main, 4 Slagstorm is good

4x Overgrown Battlement
4x Slagstorm

Matches Left: UW Control, UB Control, KRed, 1/2 of Vampires

In matches where I lose the Zenith, I want Summoning Trap instead.

Against KRed I can currently use 4x Battlement and 4x Slagstorm for 8 of the 10 needed slots. That leaves the two spots of the sideboard solely for KRed's 2x Avenger of Zendikar and Vampires Avenger of Zendikar. Inferno Titan is decent against both, but Go For The Throat is an answer in the Vampires matchup. Wurmcoil Engine works in both matchups. It's not tutorable via Green Sun's Zenith, but still a solid draw against both decks if we naturally draw it.

With 1 random slot left, we have no definite tech against UB Control. Using our current sideboard, Overgrown Battlement and Summoning Trap stand out as cards that can go in. Overgrown Battlement isn't amazing against the deck. We have 1 random spot, Gaea's Revenge has always been good in the matchup.

Final Sideboard

4x Overgrown Battlement
4x Slagstorm
4x Summoning Trap
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Gaea's Revenge

@Tom - http://www.channelfireball.com/video-archive/magic-tv-show-77-magic-weekend-paris-wrap-up/

17:30 - 18:00

What I was trying to tell you the other day

I just tested with Mark against UW Control, and I actually don't think the matchup is that bad at all.

You are completely right. Overgrown Battlement is fairly useless in the main deck, but I'm not sure I want to put it in the board. I think it is a solid plan, but I would like to have more cards against UB Control in the sideboard.

Current list after testing with Mark:
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Explore
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Harrow
1 Cultivate
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Summoning Trap
4 Primeval Titan
2 Inferno Titan
4 Lightning Bolt
Standard 28 land

Sideboard
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tumble Magnet
2 Acidic Slime
2 Nature's Claim
1 Terastadon

I would love to cram in 1 more Acidic Slime, but I like this setup at the moment.

Board plan against UW Control
-1 Harrow, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Cultivate, -1 Green Sun's Zenith
+2 Acidic Slime, +2 Nature's Claim

Board plan against Mirror
-2 Inferno Titan, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Summoning Trap
+2 Acidic Slime, +1 Green Sun's Zenith, +1 Terastadon

Board plan against UB Control
-2 Inferno Titan, -4 Lightning Bolt
+2 Gaea's Revenge, +2 Thrun, the Last Troll, +2 Acidic Slime

Board plan against Boros
-1 Green Sun's Zenith, -4 Summoning Trap, -1 Cultivate, -1 Khalni Heart Expedition
+3 Pyroclasm, +2 Tumble Magnet, +2 Acidic Slime
Without Overgrown Battlement in the board, I feel like I have to keep Lotus Cobras in the deck, and force Boros to use removal to take them down. With no tutors in the deck, the Acidic Slimes just seem really weak, and I will probably not have that be part of the sideboard plan. I feel like this is the matchup where I need the most fine-tuning at the moment.

Board plan against Vampires
+2 Thrun, the Last Troll, +2 Tumble Magnet
-2 Summoning Trap, -1 Cultivate, -1 Khalni Heart Expedition

My original list had +3 Overgrown Battlement, -1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Cultivate, -1 Khalni Heart Expedition, but I feel like Khalni Heart is too important in the control and mirror matches to warrant less than 4.

Also, not sure if Slagstorm is better or worse than Pyroclasm in the sideboard. I have cards for either plan. This is why I would like to test against Boros in our next testing session, and I would not mind running Valakut vs. Boros for a while on Tuesday.

I feel confident about the plan vs. UW Control, since the Nature's Claim/Acidic Slime worked well against Swords, which is the deck's biggest concern at the moment.

Summoning Trap is amazing vs. Ux Control, duh.

Terastadon is a little loose, but really solid in the mirror (blow up lands). Perhaps an extra Acidic Slime is better, although I like being able to really go after Green sources and Valakut in that matchup, and you simply can't go 1v1 with land D against Valakut. Plus, I can hit 8 mana pretty quick in this setup.

Kevin, your version is much simpler than mine, and I actually like the straight switch of Battlement for Cobra in the aggro matchup. I guess that we will have to test it out.

Your board plans confuse me.

+ Thrun, 0 Pyroclasm against Vampires?!?!!?!

Your sideboard plan for the mirror is also different depending on what version you're playing. 0 Cobra = -4 Lightning Bolt

Taking OUT a Bolt against UW Control?

0 Pyroclasm against Vampires?!?!?!?!?

Slagstorm > Pyroclasm against Boros. They can easily play around it. The only reason to run Pyroclasm is if you think you'll face more KRed/Vampires then Boros.

0 Pyroclasm against Vampires?!?!?!?

Apologize for the Vampires mistake, it was 2:30 am, and I was tired. Pyroclasm definitely is in, and Thrun is unnecessary. Oops. Mea culpa.

After looking at my list, I thought about something like this:

1 Acidic Slime
4 Primeval Titan
2 Inferno Titan

4 Lotus Cobra
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Harrow
4 Explore

4 Lightning Bolt

2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Summoning Trap

28 land
Kev, what do you think about running a 1of Raging Ravine, and only 7 fetches? Techy or too techy?

Sideboard
1 Summoning Trap
2 Acidic Slime
2 Nature's Claim
4 Pyroclasm
2 Tumble Magnet
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Terastadon

I actually like this board plan better, along with the main deck. I am slowly converting to Green Sun's Zenith in the main deck, but I really want at least 3x Summoning Trap in the main deck.

The miser's Acidic Slime is much easier to fetch with 2x GSZ in the main deck rather than 1, and I really want an out to Swords in the main deck against both UW Control AND Boros.

By the way, Vamps plan
+4 Pyroclasm, +2 Tumble Magnet
-4 Khalni Heart Expedition, -1 Acidic Slime, -1 Summoning Trap

By the way, I will take your advice and play Slagstorm over Pyroclasm in the sideboard. I like the flexibility, and as long as I can sweep the board, I am happy....

My thoughts are that your list has some weird choices in it. Let's start with that.

Your 1 Acidic Slime in the main deck is an odd metagame call. I know you and Marc played some games yesterday, but I'm not exactly sure how you came to conclusion that Acidic Slime is good in the UW matchup at all. They get to flash it in at the end of your turn 3, equip and swing on their 4 assuming they were on the play. Lightning Bolt? Awesome here. Nature's Claim? Awesome here. Acidic Slime is the Valakut deck's worst answer to the Sword. They untap, you discard, and then they Jace bouncing your Cobra or leave open hard counter + spell pierce mana.

By the time Acidic Slime comes down, he's far too late to the party as the damage has already been done. Also, look at it this way. Assuming you're on the play and didn't mulligan...

7, T2 Draw, T3 Draw, T4 Draw - That's 10 cards

Assuming you've gone T1 Land, T2 Land, Cobra, T3 Land, Harrow, KHE, T4 Land, Pass - You have 3 cards left in your hand by the time you pass over to them.

They untap and see you have 5 mana open. You would have been a good player and cast Lightning Bolt in response to them flashing in the Stoneforge since you wouldn't give them an out to hit Deprive. That being said, you don't have the Lightning Bolt. This gives them free ability to equip and play other spells in main phase 1. Let's say you're playing against an extremely careful UW player. Maybe they figure you want them to run into the Bolt now after they have dropped everything. They drop a land, equip, and swing leave the Deprive Mana open. Now Nature's Claim is dead if you were holding onto that.

They swing in, you can't block and discard down to 2, keeping the Acidic Slime in your hand as "tech". If they Jace here they are going to start Fate Sealing, 9 times out of 10. If they have counters, realizing you have 2 cards in hand, they will likely just pass. Let's assume they pass with 4 up.

You draw your 3rd card, but Acidic Slime is your ONLY play now. You have to make it. You have 5 lands and a Cobra in play. You cast the Acidic Slime (you're now down to 2 cards in hand) targeting the Sword. You're dead to...

Cancel, Mana Leak, Deprive if you don't have a Summoning Trap to save you
The above spells + Spell Pierce if you do, because you only have 1 left open
Mana Leak, Deprive + Negate if you do, because Negate is a hard counter

Assuming they don't have it, the sword goes away and you're left with 2 cards in hand. Here's to hoping somewhere in there you have an actual way to win the game.

Now, in that story we gave you a pretty optimal hand (for the most part, most people would consider that a pretty good hand) and gave UW a turn 2 Mystic and speculated the rest. What if...

You have the Cobra, but not the Acidic Slime? You also have Summoning Trap / Green Sun Zenith and have the ability to attempt to Harrow / Cultivate / Misty Rainforest your way to enough mana to try and FIND the slime?

1 Counter does you in.

Long story short, the matchup is certainly NOT 50/50 by a mile and your small sample size of games that you played post-board is not enough to claim 50/50. Did Marc bring in the Ousts since you were playing the Lotus Cobra version or did he leave those out?

Other odd calls - 3 Summoning Trap, 2 Zenith. You're trying to build for every matchup. Pick what you think is going to dominate the field and go 4-1. You cited GSZ to find the 1 Slime as a reason for playing 2. That means you're casting GSZ with 6 mana, 1 away from simply be able to get a Titan. Given the raw power of the deck with Cobra, you're likely to have the option to get Titan or Slime anyway. There's hardly ever a situation where you want the Slime.

A sideboard, assuming you stay with your 60, should look something more like this...

3x Nature's Claim
2x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Tumble Magnet
4x Slagstorm
1x Gaea's Revenge
1x Summoning Trap
2x Thrun, The Last Troll

Still not the way I feel the optimal 75 should be, but this is what I would use given your 60.

cavanaghlegato wrote: Did Marc bring in the Ousts since you were playing the Lotus Cobra version or did he leave those out?

I boarded in Oust, but never drew them on his turn 2 cobra which he had nearly every game. He also draws bolt like a champ.

Just curious, as 50/50 is a remarkable claim

It's back to whether or not I have a Lightning Bolt.

I feel like that every time I play Valakut (except against UB Control), I really need a Bolt + Ramp in my hand.

Summoning Trap helps a ton in the matchup, rather than the 4x Zenith version.

Here is my main deck:

4 Lotus Cobra
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Explore
4 Harrow

4 Primeval Titan
2 Inferno Titan

2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Summoning Trap

4 Lightning Bolt

5 Forest
11 Mountain
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Evolving Wilds

Sideboard
3 Nature's Claim -- my anti-Caw-Go package
4 Slagstorm
2 Tumble Magnet -- my anti-aggro (Boros and Vampires) package
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaea's Revenge -- my anti-UB Control package

This leaves 3 slots...and no plan vs. the mirror.

I know we discussed this a ton Tuesday night, but I am still up in the air about a board plan for the mirror.

Here are my thoughts:
1. I am cold to Avenger of Zendikar -- I have absolutely no outs for AoZ in my main deck or sideboard aside from double Bolt (which I either leave in or I don't depending on my opponent's build of Valakut) or prayers that Valakut doesn't draw land.
2. I don't have Oracle of Mul Daya or Joraga Treespeaker -- my ramp is slower than the mirror match.
3. I don't think I can depend upon damaging their mana base before they get off a Titan (at which point it likely doesn't matter).
4. Tumble Magnet -- while cute -- isn't really an "out" to their early Titan, but it doesn't hurt.
5. What's the best method to guarantee hitting a turn 4 Titan while also preventing them from hitting a turn 4 Titan?
6. What's the best method to win the game if they hit Titan first? (I'm pretty sure I know the best method for me to win the game if I hit Titan first...)
7. Inferno Titan is a total blank in the mirror, although I could try to go aggro with it.

Sideboard ideas:
1. 3 Acidic Slime -- target opposing Valakuts to prevent Primeval Titan from killing me. This would be really strong on the play.
2. 3 Sword of Feast and Famine/Sword of Body and Mind -- I can play Sword and equip on turn 3 with a Lotus Cobra and a fetchland. Any Sword also allows me to punch through Avenger of Zendikar Plant tokens. Sword of Body and Mind is probably a better play, but Sword of Feast and Famine owns Bx decks, and isn't terrible against Valakut (discard).
3. 2 Ratchet Bomb, 2 Tumble Magnet -- this seems purely reactive to my opponent's plays, but at least I have outs to both Avenger of Zendikar AND Primeval Titan. I would board a second Gaea's Revenge or a 3rd Tumble Magnet for the last slot.
4. 0-1 Green Sun's Zenith, 2-3 Oracle of Mul Daya -- this would allow me to ramp much faster than my Valakut opponent, and would be a really strong idea. I would need to borrow all 3 Oracles from Dave.

What's the best fit for my build and the last 3 slots, if card availability wasn't an issue (I currently own one Sword of Body and Mind, and it is in my Boros deck with Joey/Kevin/Jessie)?

No more 1x Acidic Slime in the main deck....

Your sword package idea is not good mirror tech. It requires you to hit 3 4'ofs (Sword is actually a 3 of in your plan) in the first 2 or 3 draw steps depending on if you are on the play or not.

You HAVE to hit a Cobra without using your Misty Rainforest.

You HAVE to hit Misty Rainforest on 3. Terramorphic won't work.

You HAVE to hit one of your 3 Swords.

You also reference the ability to swing past Avenger. If they've dropped Avenger you're on a 1 turn clock. So they better be at 4.

If the metagame shifts to a Lightning Bolt in the main deck metagame, your 4/3 Cobra bites the dust.

If they see a Cobra in game 1 (when you don't have swords) they will NOT board out the Lightning Bolts.

+1 Green Sun's Zenith
+2 Oracle of Mul Daya

What do you think of the Ratchet Bomb/Tumble Magnet plan? Just not proactive enough?

It would handle their threats while I deploy my own.

The more I think about it, if Valakut wants to play more guys like Lotus Cobra and Oracle of Mul Daya, doesn't Inferno Titan actually get somewhat better in the matchup overall? I guess if I want to play a Titan, I would rather it be Primeval Titan all day....

Do you think it is possible to run a sideboard plan of 1 Green Sun's Zenith and 2 Avenger of Zendikar, or will I simply get slaughtered as they ramp faster than me?