Post Paris Strategy

Because we are talking about the same thing in each topic I might as well make a new thread so all our opinions are in one.

With UW control being the deck to beat, I'm thinking that maybe RUG might be a good option. Probally with MD Thrun. However Mirran Crusader is a big flaw to that plan.

What do you think is a good option to tackle down this format?

I think we have to find a deck that answers UW Control, since in a vacuum, that should be the #1 deck coming out of this weekend. UB Control was also quite solid.

Stoneforge Mystic/equipment
If this isn't the best "combo" in Standard right now, tell me what is....

Squadron Hawk
Getting 4 guys for 1W is proving to be really strong, and the evasion really makes it ridiculous.

If you can't beat UW Control with 4 Mystic/Hawk, then find a deck that uses the same shell that beats UW Control. Personally, there might be a GWu shell that does just that, adding the Vengevine/Fauna Shaman engine to get there in the end. Unfortunately, Gideon Jura just makes that absolutely impossible. You can come back from Day of Judgment with Vengevines, but it is really difficult to come back from Day of Judgment and Gideon Jura.

Edit:
Metagame Card -- Phyrexian Crusader -- Pro Red and Pro White makes for an interesting toy. I wonder if you could make a GBw deck with Birds and Lotus Cobras to fix the mana for aggressive turn 2 plays.

Something like:
34 spells
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Vengevine
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Demon
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

26 land
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Stirring Wildwood/Sunpetal Grove
4 Forest
3 Plains
4 Swamp

I would still want to add some removal to the main deck, but I have no idea if this has any merit. Not sure what the best removal is here either, or what to take out....

Tumble Magnet
Tumble Magnet is a really strong card right now, since it can lock down your opponent's big bad threat (Sworded up critters/Titans) while you find the time to win the game. It's also an artifact, so that might mean that some type of artifact-based aggro/control deck could be used. This is also a great place for RUG to make a comeback with main deck Tumble Magnet.

Inferno Titan
It takes out all of the Boros/Vamps/Squad Hawks/Stoneforge Mystics in play, then beats for a ton. Yes, Oust is tough on Inferno Titan, but you will get it back.

Precursor Golem
If you look at a lot of the high-ranking lists, Precursor Golem made a large statement in several of the decks since it can't be hit by Go for the Throat or Journey to Nowhere (well, all three of the creatures can't be hit by Journey). Oust and Lightning Bolt are still bad, but you should be able to play around those cards.

Artifact hate
Expect many decks to really hate on Swords in the new metagame. I wonder if main deck Viridian Corrupters aren't a terrible play. Manic Vandals should see more sideboard slots. Any Shatter effect will do.


I think that Vamps, Boros, and Valakut all need to be tweaked to attack the new king of the format.

Vampires
I actually like the #1 list from the SCG Open in this format, but I think that Go for the Throat might need to hit the sideboard in favor of more anti-control main deck cards. If you can safely run Duress/Inquisition while maintaining pressure, the deck can perform very well. Using Arc Trail in the main deck to take down 2 of UWs creatures isn't a bad plan, but Spell Pierce can easily put a hurt on that idea (hence the 4of in most of the lists). Vampire Hexmage might need to make a main deck appearance over Captivating Vampire, but save some room in the board for the lord against Valakut.

Boros
Rietzl's build just got ground down by Stark in the finals, and I wonder how he beat so many UW Control players over the course of the weekend. I guess the run-goods really are the run-goods, and the Boros nut-draw is better than the UW answer. Oust is ridiculous against Boros, however. I am not sure how Boros can answer Gideon Jura, since that card is an absolute nightmare for Boros. I think Gideon is the biggest stumbling block to playing Boros in Standard. I am probably not on the Boros bandwagon, but I seriously love Stoneforge Mystic as a 4of in any deck in the format right now. UW Control, unfortunately, simply has a better shell for the Mystic at the moment than Boros, and you almost have to kill all of their creatures, then kill Gideon, then Jace, then win the game to make it happen.

Valakut
I find it really interesting to see that ALL of the Valakut decks in the 18+ points range had 4x Green Sun's Zenith main deck and 0 Summoning Traps. How does that work? Many of the Valakut builds had some weird mix of early ramp spells/creatures, and there wasn't a single deck that stood out to me and said, "That's correct." Cultivate found a place again in many Valakut builds, and I am not really sure why. Lotus Cobra into threat the next turn still seems like one of the best answers to UW Control, but how do you maximize the threat? Personally, I think some 3x Green Sun's Zenith/3x Summoning Trap split might get it done, but you are really counting on Lotus Cobra/Overgrown Battlement sticking to make this happen. The turn 3 Titan needs to be a possibility, but it needs Summoning Trap protection, and that has to be main deck with all of the counters flying around (particularly Spell Pierce).

I defer to Kevin in this, since he has done the most testing with the deck, and he knows how to beat control with the deck better than I do. Personally, there is a strong possibility that Kevin will be playing Valakut at the SCG Open, and I will find a more aggressive deck. I am not a huge fan of Green Sun's Zenith in the deck, and I think adding Lotus Cobra actually makes it more likely for me to want to run Summoning Trap main deck, not less.

The Metagame Deck
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Viridian Corrupter
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Vengevine
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Vines of Vastwood/Emerge Unscathed
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Bonehoard

The GW Quest shell just looks better, but I don't like just going all in on Quest. Although it can get "free" wins, it just doesn't seem like a consistent deck that will win a 10-round tournament. Can you afford to play a GW build with no reach that just sends a steady stream of creatures at the opposition? Again, the major problem with this plan is Gideon Jura, since you really have 0 outs to that guy. My kingdom for Oblivion Ring.

The best ways to handle Gideon Jura is BB, and that's Vampire Hexmage. Aside from that, what is there? Into the Roil/bounce? Beatdown, and hope you don't get Day of Judgement in the mean time? Phyrexian Revoker? Killed waay too easily to make it work. Anyone else have a suggestion?

Your lists are weird. Combining a couple of infect guys into your list will put a huge hamper on your ability to win the game. How awkward is 6 poison damage & your opponent at 10? I understand the need for artifact hate, but each color in what you're trying to do has a little something...

Red - Crush, Shatter
Green - Naturalize, Nature's Claim
White - Divine Offering
Blue - Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Black - You're playing Vampires, win faster

After playing a few games with Kevin, I don't think a green shell in any deck is very effective. Both swords are pro green. I guess post board we can have answers. Also if you want to play GWu Fauna Shaman you can play your own Gideon without any problem. See the Bant list that some japanese player played.

MooMooChicken wrote:See the Bant list that some japanese player played.

Always trust them.

@Marc - Don't talk Tom off of GW, I want to play Valakut.

All right, where are you on MWS?

I want to lurk....

mws.tipo1.it

I'm on...

Marc and I are in the middle of a session at the moment. I can't answer your call, Abi is sleeping behind me. Give Marc a call and talk to him while we play so you can pick up on things.

757-561-1455

Marc isn't answering....

Keep calling him. I'm yelling at him. Note the changed number.

phone died

// Lands
4 [SOM] Seachrome Coast
4 [IN] Island (3)
4 [ST] Forest (1)
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [SOM] Razorverge Thicket
3 [WWK] Stirring Wildwood
1 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade

// Creatures
4 [M11] Squadron Hawk
2 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
4 [ZEN] Lotus Cobra
2 [M10] Llanowar Elves
4 [5E] Birds of Paradise
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 [ROE] Gideon Jura
2 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
3 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
4 [9E] Mana Leak


It's fun to play. And halfway decent.

Also if some UW builds arn't going to play maindeck removal besides Day of Judgment anything with Lotus Cobra become halfway decent. Vampires just seem terrible and not fast enough. Boros is halfway decent, but inconsistant with it's mana for what it does. Valakut is just valakut. Green isn't very good right now. I think RUG can be decent if it maindecks Slagstorm and potentially plain old RDW. Kuldotha Red is too vulerable and not consistant enough. Thats my opinion.

It's weird:

Green is bad due to the pro-green swords (you just swing through any green blockers), but Green is good due to the lack of removal and presence of Lotus Cobra. UW is happy to let you ramp with Cobra, then blow you out with Day of Judgment (x4).

Valakut would be a good matchup against UW, but 4x Spell Pierce takes care of the ramp, and Day of Judgment takes care of the creatures. It's the one deck where Gideon Jura doesn't really matter. The more creatures that Valakut adds, the better Wrath effects become against the deck. Now, all you really need to counter in Valakut is the Green Sun's Zenith and Primeval Titans.

Just play a deck that crushes equipment, and that will probably be a solid metagame deck, like a RDW variant with main deck artifact hate/creatures.

I wouldn't mind trying to make Phyrexian Crusader + Sword of Body and Mind work, since that is a lot of protection (just missing black). I think a deck can be based around that combo, but then you have to win by infect, and that makes the rest of the deck interesting.

Cunning Sparkmage>Format

After a day of thought Bant is just a worse version of UW control with Lotus Cobra.

I still think Cunning Sparkmage beats the majoraty of the format. It's only useless against Valakut and UB Control. Atleast against RUG/BUG it can kill a cobra.

Only useless against UB Control and Valakut?

Valakut at Paris = 105
UB Control at Paris = 100

Top decks of the tournament. You must be counting on one hell of a format shift. Also, I don't understand how it's all that great against UW. It comes down against... Hawks?

cavanaghlegato wrote:Only useless against UB Control and Valakut?

Valakut at Paris = 105
UB Control at Paris = 100

Top decks of the tournament. You must be counting on one hell of a format shift. Also, I don't understand how it's all that great against UW. It comes down against... Hawks?

Cunning Sparkmage is really only completely dead against a standard Valakut build, UB Control and Tezzeret.

Against the rest of the format it is actually useful in some way.

Useful? Sure. Worth it?

Forked Bolt is "useful" against some of the format
Baneslayer Angel is "useful" against some of the format

Is Cunning Sparkmage really worth it?

majority of the format

A deck that I want to play includes these cards:

Squadron Hawk
Stoneforge Mystic
Gideon Jura
Jace 2.0
Lotus Cobra
Thrun
Lightning Bolt
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Body and Mind

Options are:
UW Control
Bant
Naya
RUG
Some other random combination

Build me a deck!

4x Squadron Hawk
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Lotus Cobra
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
4x Mana Leak
1x Cancel
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Sword of Body and Mind
3x Jace 2.0
2x Gideon Jura
1x Venser, the Sojourner
1x Into The Roil
27x Land

Your list of cards hurts my brain

cavanaghlegato wrote:
Your list of cards hurts my brain

Why?

They didn't all need to be in one deck. I mean I don't hate that list. It's alright I guess.

I thought you wanted them all in the same list. Haha